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Why phbBB2?

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espicom
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008

Posts: 55
Location: Woodstock, IL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:13 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Quote:
phpBB3 offers a slick update system that does the patching for you, ...


Of course, it would be nice if it also offered a "slick clean-up system" to go with it, and remove all the .bak files after you finish testing...
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Techie-Micheal
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Joined: 27 Dec 2008

Posts: 49



PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:22 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

espicom wrote:
Quote:
phpBB3 offers a slick update system that does the patching for you, ...


Of course, it would be nice if it also offered a "slick clean-up system" to go with it, and remove all the .bak files after you finish testing...
To be honest, it never worked for me, it would never rename the .bak files to .php, taking my board with it, but plenty of other people have it work fine for them, so I can only say that it does work.
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Nightrider
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg, FL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:57 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Micheal wrote:
And yet people really, really wanted the conditionals, and better caching, and the various other features the new templating system offers.

To me, it seems that this was a philosophical shift. The phpBB developers chose complexity over simplicity, no longer catering to the novice admin, which probably makes up the majority of those who use phpBB2...

I am a Delphi and C programmer among others with over 21 years of work related experience. I have two Computer Science degrees. I taught myself HTML and php. Yet I struggle with the phpBB3 template code. If I can't fully grasp it with my extensive experience and education, how can the phpBB developers expect a novice non-coding hobbyist to do so? How can I help them if I don't fully understand it myself? How does the phpBB3 template complexity promote phpBB to the average Joe the Plumber off of the street? It doesn't. It actually discourages it. So how can that good for the future of phpBB???

Micheal wrote:
Holding a grudge and avoiding people are two different things. The former isn't doing anybody any good. The latter might be beneficial in some scenarios.

If I saw some contrition from those who have been so hateful and destructive, then I wouldn't see a need for holding grudges. Since there is no remorse and since the attitude remains pervasive within the phpBB.com community, I see no reason for forgiveness on my part. Their attitude and actions are a cancer for the community, which is far more destructive for the community than anyone holding a grudge against them and their actions. If they would take care of the former, the latter would take care of itself over time...

Micheal wrote:
Actually, chances are it will happen again. It isn't the first time the PHP Group has broken things.

And if it happens again, we will adjust...

Micheal wrote:
performance improvements never hurt anyone either.

I agree with this. If there is a noticeable performance improvement, that would be good for everyone...

Micheal wrote:
If I could get to phpBB.com to provide links (Level3 outage), I'd provide links, but in the year that phpBB3 has been out, it has yet to have a critical vulnerability, while in its first year, phpBB2 did. If remember serves me correctly, one of those vulnerabilities gave immediate access to the admin panel.

Up until 2.0.15, there were lots of vulnerabilities in phpBB2. But phpBB2 is up to 2.0.24, which is mostly secure...

How about these???
Micheal wrote:
2) To clear up some FUD going around. One person in particular (not you) appears to like spreading FUD due to his hate of team members.

I wonder why anyone would hate the team members? Could it have something to do with what we have been talking about? Hmmm....

I can't even begin to guess what FUD is going around or whether there is any truth to any of it. All I can offer is what I have witnessed, experienced, and been told by those I have helped over the years. If only one person was complaining, perhaps the problem is with the complainer. But since there are so many repeating similar experiences, the problem is within the community itself. Until that changes, then you are probably fighting an unwinnable battle...

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Nightrider
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg, FL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:06 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

SamG wrote:
Back mid year and into the fall there was more than one long topic where this is exactly what happened. "Got up this morning and my board was gone." No changes to the board whatsoever. In a couple of cases core files had been corrupted, but the majority were down to a corrupt cache.

This is EXACTLY what each admin told me when their boards went offline. In each case without exception, they said that they had done nothing to their boards in ages. The first two times that I encountered this, it was painful tracking down the source of the problem to the caching system. But once I pinpointed the problem, clearing the cache worked in EVERY instance when the problem was brought to me...

The caching system should never crash a board. The fact that it seems to occur so frequently in phpBB3 proves to me that there is a serious flaw within the phpBB3 caching system. I hope the phpBB developers take it seriously rather than blaming the admins...

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3Di
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Joined: 03 Dec 2008

Posts: 15
Location: Italy


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:16 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Nightrider wrote:


How about these???


All of this has being dealt with, a long time ago (see immediately, as usual) icon_wink.gif

Nightrider wrote:

Micheal wrote:
2) To clear up some FUD going around. One person in particular (not you) appears to like spreading FUD due to his hate of team members.

I wonder why anyone would hate the team members? Could it have something to do with what we have been talking about? Hmmm....

I can't even begin to guess what FUD is going around or whether there is any truth to any of it. All I can offer is what I have witnessed, experienced, and been told by those I have helped over the years. If only one person was complaining, perhaps the problem is with the complainer. But since there are so many repeating similar experiences, the problem is within the community itself. Until that changes, then you are probably fighting an unwinnable battle...



Here you are not sincere, I have read the whole topic and yes, I'm the one who banned you (temporary ban) from area51 at those times, and remember phpbb.com was not hacked at those times. icon_wink.gif So please do not put words into others mouths.

In order to keep this place as warm as possible I'm kindly inviting you to my personal MSN if you need more insight on what happened there at those times. I do remember everything.

Feel free to PM me if you like to do so, I'll be more than glad to give you my MSN access.

Okay, on topic, apologize.
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Nightrider
Board Member



Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg, FL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:25 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

3Di wrote:
I'm the one who banned you (temporary ban) from area51 at those times, and remember phpbb.com was not hacked at those times. icon_wink.gif So please do not put words into others mouths.

Yes, I am fully aware that you brought your attitude to Area 51 and trashed the place when phpBB.com was down for 3 weeks. I am fully aware that you ruined an environment that worked perfectly fine for so long without your involvement. YOU are the reason I stopped offering Tech Support in Area 51 so I hope you were happy with the outcome. Do you think your involvement helped or harmed the community? I doubt that you will ever understand the damage that you wrought. For that, it would be difficult for me to ever forgive you. I hope that you are not planning to bring the same attitude to this community...

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espicom
Board Member



Joined: 24 Nov 2008

Posts: 55
Location: Woodstock, IL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:29 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Nightrider wrote:
The PHP vulnerabilities, exploits and hacks in phpBB3


I find it interesting that this weblog entry doesn't even try to imply that the uploaded file was a phpBB3 problem... just that he updated both phpBB3 and Wordpress after he found the uploaded file. Most of these mysterious upload issues I've seen in the past two years have to do with hosting control panel software, and, although it is POSSIBLE to configure things to allow phpBB3 to upload such a program, it's kind of a pain to do it.

It is also possible to configure your site so that such uploaded programs can't be executed... if your host allows you to put .htaccess files in place to limit what is web-accessible, and what is not.
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3Di
Board Member



Joined: 03 Dec 2008

Posts: 15
Location: Italy


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:31 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Nightrider wrote:
3Di wrote:
I'm the one who banned you (temporary ban) from area51 at those times, and remember phpbb.com was not hacked at those times. icon_wink.gif So please do not put words into others mouths.

Yes, I am fully aware that you brought your attitude to Area 51 and trashed the place when phpBB.com was down for 3 weeks. I am fully aware that you ruined an environment that worked perfectly fine for so long without your involvement. YOU are the reason I stopped offering Tech Support in Area 51 so I hope you were happy with the outcome. Do you think your involvement helped or harmed the community? I doubt that you will ever understand the damage that you wrought. For that, it would be difficult for me to ever forgive you. I hope that you are not planning to bring the same attitude to this community...


The only one have an attitude here (and there) it's you. I do not have time to spend arguing with you about this matters. Just stop please to post useless posts, you are not the right person IMHO who can teach anyone here and there about anything.

Have a nice stay.

icon_biggrin.gif
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Nightrider
Board Member



Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg, FL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:39 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

3Di wrote:
The only one have an attitude here (and there) it's you. I do not have time to spend arguing with you about this matters. Just stop please to post useless posts, you are not the right person IMHO who can teach anyone here and there about anything.

You should never have had any authority over at phpBB.com and I hope that you never gain any power here or anywhere else either. You actions were not conducive to a productive, positive, and happy environment. As I helped hundreds of people over at Area 51 for over a year, mostly exclusively, you were harrassing them. You did not add anything positive to the environment AFAICS. You were a bully who enjoyed abusing the power that you held. Were you demoted or did you quit? Last I looked, you were no longer part of the phpBB staff...

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3Di
Board Member



Joined: 03 Dec 2008

Posts: 15
Location: Italy


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:41 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Nightrider wrote:
3Di wrote:
The only one have an attitude here (and there) it's you. I do not have time to spend arguing with you about this matters. Just stop please to post useless posts, you are not the right person IMHO who can teach anyone here and there about anything.

You should never have had any authority over at phpBB.com and I hope that you never gain any power here or anywhere else either. You actions were not conducive to a productive, positive, and happy environment. As I helped hundreds of people over at Area 51 for over a year, mostly exclusively, you were harrassing them. You did not add anything positive to the environment AFAICS. You were a bully who enjoyed abusing the power that you held. Were you demoted or did you quit? Last I looked, you were no longer part of the phpBB staff...

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lol, it seems I'm your nightmare. icon_lol.gif
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Nightrider
Board Member



Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg, FL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:44 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

3Di wrote:
lol, it seems I'm your nightmare. icon_lol.gif

I'm glad that you find pleasure in the damage that you wrought. You should be so proud of yourself...

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Techie-Micheal
Board Member



Joined: 27 Dec 2008

Posts: 49



PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:52 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Nightrider wrote:
Micheal wrote:
And yet people really, really wanted the conditionals, and better caching, and the various other features the new templating system offers.


I am a Delphi and C programmer among others with over 21 years of work related experience. I have two Computer Science degrees. I taught myself HTML and php. Yet I struggle with the phpBB3 template code. If I can't fully grasp it with my extensive experience and education, how can the phpBB developers expect a novice non-coding hobbyist to do so? How can I help them if I don't fully understand it myself? How does the phpBB3 template complexity promote phpBB to the average Joe the Plumber off of the street? It doesn't. It actually discourages it. So how can that good for the future of phpBB???
Why does Joe the Plumber need to read the templating code or the caching code? Chances are, they don't.

Quote:
Micheal wrote:
Holding a grudge and avoiding people are two different things. The former isn't doing anybody any good. The latter might be beneficial in some scenarios.

If I saw some contrition from those who have been so hateful and destructive, then I wouldn't see a need for holding grudges. Since there is no remorse and since the attitude remains pervasive within the phpBB.com community, I see no reason for forgiveness on my part. Their attitude and actions are a cancer for the community, which is far more destructive for the community than anyone holding a grudge against them and their actions. If they would take care of the former, the latter would take care of itself over time...
And we are back to you making the choice as to how you react. You don't have to wait until someone apologizes to forgive them. icon_wink.gif If I waited to forgive those who have screwed up my life, I'd be in a mental institution right now ... And I'm talking about things that matter, not something as insignificant as a spat over the internet.

Quote:
Micheal wrote:
Actually, chances are it will happen again. It isn't the first time the PHP Group has broken things.

And if it happens again, we will adjust...
And right back to what I said earlier about the next time it may not be so easy.

Quote:
Micheal wrote:
If I could get to phpBB.com to provide links (Level3 outage), I'd provide links, but in the year that phpBB3 has been out, it has yet to have a critical vulnerability, while in its first year, phpBB2 did. If remember serves me correctly, one of those vulnerabilities gave immediate access to the admin panel.

Up until 2.0.15, there were lots of vulnerabilities in phpBB2. But phpBB2 is up to 2.0.24, which is mostly secure...
.23. And look how long it took phpBB2 to get to where it is? That's why I said that phpBB3 has a better record already.

Quote:
How about these???
Yes, what about these? This is the type of FUD I was talking about. icon_wink.gif

Quote:
PHPBB 3 Memberlist.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability
That was before phpBB3 went gold. Ergo, the year that phpBB3 has been out.

Quote:
The PHP vulnerabilities, exploits and hacks in phpBB3
Ahhh, have you read the post? It doesn't actually describe any vulnerabilities in phpBB3 or Wordpress.

Quote:
phpBB3 Critical Security Vulnerability - Blind SQL Injection
Did you read this one? This was proven to be incorrect. There wasn't any blind SQL injection.

Quote:
phpRaider 1.0.7 (phpbb3.functions.php) RFI Vulnerability
That's not even phpBB!

Quote:
phpBB3 vulnerability
99.99999% of these are pure FUD, like the links you posted, with the exception of the first one, which as I explained, was before phpBB3 went gold.

Quote:
Micheal wrote:
2) To clear up some FUD going around. One person in particular (not you) appears to like spreading FUD due to his hate of team members.

I wonder why anyone would hate the team members? Could it have something to do with what we have been talking about? Hmmm....
Because of this person's inability to let go? Besides, not all people on the team are mean.

Quote:
I can't even begin to guess what FUD is going around or whether there is any truth to any of it. All I can offer is what I have witnessed, experienced, and been told by those I have helped over the years. If only one person was complaining, perhaps the problem is with the complainer. But since there are so many repeating similar experiences, the problem is within the community itself. Until that changes, then you are probably fighting an unwinnable battle...
I just cleared up some more FUD in this post. icon_smile.gif
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Nightrider
Board Member



Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg, FL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:08 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Micheal wrote:
Why does Joe the Plumber need to read the templating code or the caching code? Chances are, they don't.

You know better. Joe the plumber does try to add functionality and then when they run into trouble, they come asking for help. That won't change. So making it even more difficult for them to even try to alter their boards really defies reason...

Micheal wrote:
And we are back to you making the choice as to how you react. You don't have to wait until someone apologizes to forgive them. icon_wink.gif If I waited to forgive those who have screwed up my life, I'd be in a mental institution right now ...

Look above. One of the problems that I have been referring to has emerged in this community and once again I see no remorse. I see no change in attitude. This is exactly what I was talking about. Why should I forgive anyone like that? I see no reason to drop my guard for someone who enjoys inflicting harm on others. Why would phpBB.com ever promote anyone like that? It definitely does't work in the best interest of the community...

Micheal wrote:
That's why I said that phpBB3 has a better record already.

You said that phpBB3 has yet to have a critical vulnerability. All I did was a quick Google search and found links that this might not be true. Since I don't use phpBB3, I can't vouch for the validity of any of the claims. But since there were many pages in the result set, it seems to me that there have been problems. If all of the reported problems were false, then that is great to know. But does that mean that phpBB2 is less secure? PhpBB2 has come a long way since 2.0.0...

Micheal wrote:
not all people on the team are mean.

Quite a few of them were supportive of those who were. A cop never turns on a fellow cop right or wrong. That attitude was pervasive over at phpBB.com...

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espicom
Board Member



Joined: 24 Nov 2008

Posts: 55
Location: Woodstock, IL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:22 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

Nightrider wrote:
You know better. Joe the plumber does try to add functionality and then when they run into trouble, they come asking for help. That won't change. So making it even more difficult for them to even try to alter their boards really defies reason...


Why, then, are the "free" phpBB hosting sites so popular? They don't allow ANY changes. And they host thousands of boards. Others charge for it, but still don't allow user changes. And they host thousands of additional boards. I host a dozen; they get the customizations I decide to provide. When it is a better fit, they get phpBB3 instead of phpBB2. And I only occasionally get even a request for a prompt to be changed.

Most people want their website (or forum) to just work. How many weblogs are personally hosted, vs. those that are on major hosting services like Google or Yahoo?

Those of us who WANT or NEED to modify software are vastly outnumbered by those who don't give a crap about "ease of modification". I rejoined a group I hadn't been on in 10 years, and found they're using a particularly crappy piece of forum software, UBB. It won't even remember what topics you haven't read if you enter one of the forums to read the new ones in it. But, they don't care. One of their members wrote software to hide that problem from them (an off-line reader, originally written for CompuServe forums), and everyone is happy.
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Nightrider
Board Member



Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg, FL


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:38 pm 
Post subject: Re: Why phbBB2?

espicom wrote:
Why, then, are the "free" phpBB hosting sites so popular? They don't allow ANY changes. And they host thousands of boards. Others charge for it, but still don't allow user changes. And they host thousands of additional boards. I host a dozen; they get the customizations I decide to provide. When it is a better fit, they get phpBB3 instead of phpBB2. And I only occasionally get even a request for a prompt to be changed.

The free phpBB hosting sites are popular because they are free. It costs nothing to run a board. That fills a niche audience who really aren't interested in anything other than a social environment that they can call their own. The host gains in ad revenue while the admin gets their very own forum at no cost whatsoever. It is a win-win for everyone involved. I imagine that this is more than satisfactory for a good percentage of the phpBB membership. It would be interesting to see what percentage of the phpBB admins actually go with and are satisfied with this option...

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